Posts by cognizant dissident

125

Religion and Cults

by alice.in.wonderland in

i've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.

i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.

the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

cognizant dissident

CD, since you've placed your head on the chopping block....please defend your very broad statement that all religions do use some form of mind control. Being an ex-JW, I tend to balk at such all encompassing, demonizing statements.
StAnn

I'm going to pick a bit on Judaism here as Christianity and Islam evolved from that folklore.

When Moses lead the Israelites through the wilderness, (if one accepts this story as factual), he controlled the people by claiming to be the only existing channel through which God spoke. Dissenters or complainers were put to death. Obedience to God, as manifested by the leader (Moses) was a strict requirement for the people. Their entire lives were dictated by Moses, through the law code, down to the most minute aspect of daily life including the "proper" expression of sexuality. Moses claims this law came to him through divine revelation.

Children were taught these "truths" and laws from infancy and dissension was not allowed. A child who was disobedient could be stoned to death along with adults. One could never be "good enough" as one was always "imperfect" and "sinful" and thus "guilty" and needed some sort of sacrifice and atonement.

Christianity, while diverging in the content of the story, keeps to the same process. Children are baptized at birth, indoctrinated in the mythology from childhood, taught that they are born sinful and therefore not "good enough" in themselves. They need to be redeemed. Fear is used to keep the members in control, ie. eternal damnation in tormenting hellfire. The leaders of the church interpret God's message and thus make the rules for the followers to keep.

Every Christian and Islamic sect teaches and practices some form of this process. Content of stories and rules differs slightly, but the process is the same. Indoctrination in early childhood of being "bad" for simply being born human. Interpretations and rules made by leaders who have some sort of divine inspiration or at least an extra dose of holy spirit leading them to lead) Control through fear and punishment. (The punishment changes in severity but the fear is the key element). While all religions may not perform severe shunning, the mythology promotes an "us versus them" mentality in that it segregates people into two classes, believer and unbeliever, good versus evil, saved versus damned. There are social ramifications to that mentality, even in the most mild of the sects (which, by the way, is a synonym for the word "cult').

Now, please go back and read the 10 warning signs of a dangerous group or leader and see if you can see any parallels.

24

Verbal abuse and an apology

by Cagefighter in

jw
friends

i have enjoyed the battles like any gladiator but i realize that my behaviour on and off the interenet is often seen as verbally abusive.

just because someone dissappoints me is not a reason to attack them or their character.

so to all those.... beks, dinah, sammieswife comes to mind i apologize.

cognizant dissident

I'm curious as to why your verbal abuse seems particularly directed towards women? Do you have any insight on that?

125

Religion and Cults

by alice.in.wonderland in

i've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.

i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.

the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

cognizant dissident

I'm going to put my head on the chopping block here and say that some of those cut and pastes AIW posted made some valid points:

My dictionary also defines "cult" as any religious sect. Any religion would technically be a cult, but as a society we tend to use it as a perjorative term to describe "other" religions that we don't agree with.

All religions do use some form of mind control and fear to keep their followers in psychological check. It's true that there are varying degrees of abuse and mind control exercised but I don't think one could find one religion that does not use some of the tactics listed in the "ten warning signs of a dangerous group or leader."

I agree the JW's are a cult and disagree with many of AIW's posts, however, when someone makes a valid point in argument, it is good to acknowledge that otherwise we are just guilty of ad hominen attacks as well.

135

Ouija Board Hysteria

by Megachusen in

jw
friends

i always wondered why jw's were always so afraid of ouija(pronounced as "wee-yaw" not "wee-gee") boards.

does anyone have any speculation about who started these jw myths?.

anyone who has actually tried the board and would like to give their opinions are welcome.

cognizant dissident

What I find interesting is the evil spirits always talk about demons, Satan, Jehovah, etc , all from the Christian frame of reference in a majority Christian country. When JW's play with one it spells out stories that would freak out someone from the JW frame of reference.

When a Muslim plays with a Ouija board what does it spell out to freak people out? Christian? Infidel?

If a Buddhist played with one, what would freak them out? Reincarnation as an ant?

What about Hindus or Sikhs? Do they have scary demons in their religions with other names that would be spelled out.

It reminds me of when the WTBTS printed that mag about near death experiences. They said that people always "saw" the other side as something that was already in their frame of reference or validated their already preconceived ideas of what "heaven" was like.

The human mind is indeed a powerful force as is the power of suggestion. I had demon experiences all the time as a child. So did my brother. I also had them when I was disfellowshipped at 18 because I "knew" I no longer had Jehovah's protection. Do I think it's possible I imagined all those experiences because I had my mind drilled full off such horror stories for my entire life until I had the shit scared out of me? Absolutely!

Now, I'm a full blown apostate and nary a demon experience in sight. It's amazing how when you stop believing in other people's stories, they cease to have any power over you.

As for other's perceptions being "real", I tend to think of what the mind is capable of in distorted perceptions by thinking on the movie "A Beautiful Mind". Now there was a brilliant man with a brilliant mind, who imagined all sorts of crazy things and he absolutely believed them to be real. Such is the nature of mind. It is capable of great insight and great deception. To be able to tell the difference is wisdom.

Cog

"A neurotic builds castles in the air. A psychotic moves in."

36

What happened to all the JW talk about the King of the North and Peace & Security?

by Think About It in

when i left the jw's in 95', talk of the king of the north and peace & security was still big close to the end items.

haven't seen them mentioned much since i've been coming here.

what's the latest from the wts on these 2 subjects?.

cognizant dissident

I left in 2006 and at that time the new Daniel book said the Kings of the North and South were constantly changing as world powers changed and were not one specific country.

Apparently, the Kings now overlap each other. when one world power falls, and another takes their place, the prophecy now applies to the new world powers. So you see brothers and sisters, in this way, the faithful slave is never wrong, and this aptly typifies and foreshadows the overlapping generations that saw the generation that saw 1914. Isn't that happifying?

My son was about 12 or 13 when we studied that book and on coffee night, he overheard some sisters talking about the old Daniel book and how different the interpretations were back then and isn't it wonderful to have this new light.

When he got home he asked me, "if the old light was wrong, then how do we know the new light is right?" Maybe this will be old light in 10 more years."

You see, it's so simple, even a child can get it. I had to make a choice then, because I sat through that entire book asking myself the same question and came to the conclusion they were just making it up as they go along but only after it was obvious the old light had to be wrong, (as the fall of the USSR put the end to current light).

So I had to choose whether to do a mind fuck on my son, or have an honest conversation with him. I chose honesty and that was the beginning of the end for both of us.

33

Comment on Loneliness

by jgnat in

jw
friends

one of the great lessons this board gave me is the cruelty of shunning by the jehovah's witnesses.

it is inhuman.

the toll it takes on a person cannot be underestimated.

cognizant dissident

Cognizant Dissident - I would agree that loneliness is a state of mind as far as it is a choice. The author I quoted holds special meaning for me because he founded a society to integrate the mentally handicapped. The rejection that this group feels is intense and real. His homes, L'Arche, invite able minded people to live and eat in the homes with these most special people in our society.

Jgnat: What a wonderful thing that author has done. I very much admire a person who sees such a problem and does something proactive and practical to address it.

I do agree with you that the physically and mentally handicapped are often marginalized and isolated in our society and they suffer an especially difficult time with loneliness because of it. This is not a state of mind for them but a daily reality and they also do not have the resources do something about the problem but often have to depend on the good graces of others.

The times that I am most likely to feel loneliness, even now, are when my chronic illness flares up and I'm unable to do some things for myself and MUST rely on others. It is an incredibly vulnerable feeling and does trigger some sort of primal survival need in the human brain to seek the safety and solace of "the herd". I understand why many fear old age and disability more than they fear death.

I would like to share a story that your quote above reminded me of. My mother cooks for seniors in an assisted living building. They have their own apartments but can pay to have their meals made and dine in the communal dining room if they wish. Sometimes, if I have an extra couple of hours, I go up to help my mother in the kitchen and eat with the seniors in the dining room. They seem to enjoy the new face at the table for company.

There is one lady there who had a severe stroke and can only stay in her apartment due to having her son live with her. Her face is contorted from the stroke and she often gags and chokes when she eats. It is not the prettiest sight, but the other diners just accept it and go about their business. One new lady joined the dining community and started a protest to have the lady with the stroke not be allowed in the dining room. It upset her to have to look at this reality of life and aging and illness.

Well, she lost her petition, but I was struck by how afraid we are, as a society, to look at the less than picture perfect reality of illness, aging and death. It can trigger our own deepest fears about the future. Like it or not, though, every last one of us will have to look those things squarely in the face at some point in our lives.

I'm not sure what the point of my story is. Perhaps I'm just putting in a little plug for taking that extra few moments out of our day to notice who may be feeling a little lonely or isolated and taking the time to say a kind word, or ask how they are, and actually listen to the answer. It doesn't have to take a lot of time but it can make the world of difference to someone to know they matter and their life is of value also.

Cog

33

Comment on Loneliness

by jgnat in

jw
friends

one of the great lessons this board gave me is the cruelty of shunning by the jehovah's witnesses.

it is inhuman.

the toll it takes on a person cannot be underestimated.

cognizant dissident

I was much lonelier as a JW than I am since leaving. Strangely, I was almost always surrounded by people and socializing as a JW but didn't feel connected on some level. I've spent time crying alone in that same closet as Scully.

Now, I spend much of my time alone, but I don't feel lonely and I do feel more connected to my heritage, my family, (whom I rarely see as they are JW's), my new friends of only a few years and the world as a whole. I even feel more of a connection with my cat. I feel a part of the cycle of birth and life and death, no more or less important than any other living thing who is also a part of it.

Loneliness is a state of mind, IMO. It is the story that we tell ourselves about being alone. On some level we often think that we should always be surrounded by loved ones, laughing and being happy, like on television. We don't see that loneliness is not a permanent state, it is just passing weather like any human emotion.

Also, in our culture, we don't have the respect and appreciation for quiet and solitude that some other cultures have. We see loners as weird and suspect. I think it is the mind attitude that needs to change not the physical state.

Cog

18

Elder keeps calling and calling and calling

by troubled mind in

since the sheparding visit a few weeks ago i have had three phone calls and two drop bys from the elders .

we have been gone both times they stopped by (but our son saw them and did not answer the door ).

the phone messages are directed to me not my husband, and the one left today he sounded a bit on edge .

cognizant dissident

Ignore! Calling to talk to tell him you don't want to talk is a bit counterproductive. If you don't want to talk, then don't talk, starting with not returning the call!

20

Anyone get divorced because of differing beliefs?

by NiceDream in

lately my husband has been miserable, but isn't talking.

he is really upset that he is "stuck with me" now that he knows i question my beliefs.

i thought we could explore the bible together and i hoped he would come to the same conclusion as me, but he won't do that.

cognizant dissident

I'm just currently divorcing and I won't say that was the only issue but it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Is your marriage good otherwise? I think that could make a difference in whether it was salvageable or not.

The other thing that will make a big difference is how far your mate is willing to go to try and bring you back to the fold. Mine was essentially shunning me in my own home.

My advice, especially if you have young children, is try to work it out. Model the respect and tolerance for him and his beliefs that you wan't him to show you. You may be in a time in your life where you need to question, but he is not in a time in his life where he needs or wants to hear that. Take your questions elsewhere and let him come around at his own pace. He has as much right to stay as you do to leave.

See how he responds to that. If you show respect and tolerance, and are willing to compromise with the children, perhaps teaching them both belief systems and letting them choose when they are grown up, then you have done your part. You'll just have to wait and see if he will meet you half way.

That's the advice I got from my marriage counselor and even though my husband was not willing and we are divorcing, at least I know I did my part and everything in my power to save my marriage. I can walk away now, content with the outcome. Also, while I am very poor right now, I'm still much happier.

5

What do I say?

by Miss Chievous in

a young man in my local cong has recently lost his mother due to her refusal to take blood.

he is a believer and i obviously don't want to destroy his faith but what can i say to him that will comfort him without having to lie?

i get so angry when i think about the situation he finds himself in - needlessly without his mother for the rest of his life (he is an only child too and they were very close), i don't want to go and see him while i am still so upset myself in case i say something wrong.

cognizant dissident

IMO, this is not the time to make an issue of the blood issue. He is now a most tragic victim of this policy and he needs comfort in his grief, not to be convinced his mother died for nothing. It can't be undone.

I would just do what normal people do when someone dies. Go and visit and give him a hug and tell him your sorry and encourage him to tell you all the nice memories he has of his mom. He can figure out the rest himself when his grief is further behind him and his brain can handle it. It will either kick in or it won't.